Tanz im August Podcast #16 - Dana Michel - YOU CANNOT CAN

00:00:06: Welcome to the Tansim Auguste Podcast.

00:00:09: This podcast series is part of The Tansime August Festival, presented by Hau Heblam-Ufer!

00:00:15: this year it takes place from thirteenths to twenty ninths of august

00:00:20: in berlin.

00:00:21: several

00:00:21: artists from this years program have been invited to join a conversation series.

00:00:27: In each episode they share insights into their lives and creative work.

00:00:32: The artists talk about their past and current projects... ...and offering in-depth perspectives on the works they are presenting at Tansom August, twenty-twenty six.

00:00:45: In this episode Ricardo Camona, artistic director of the festival talks with Dana Michel.

00:00:51: She will present her work You Cannot Can!

00:00:54: On fifteenths, sixteenths & seventeenths of august at Stadtbad Uderberger.

00:01:01: Hello Dana Thank you for joining podcast episode of the festival.

00:01:07: It's really nice to talk with you because I recently saw your premiere in Brussels and we're gonna present your work in Berlin, so it is a good timing.

00:01:18: also could begin with, if you could introduce yourself to our listeners and also how your practices evolved in the last years.

00:01:40: And How did he arrived here today?

00:01:43: Oh, that's a big question!

00:01:50: My name is Dana Michelle and I am person who makes performance Works?

00:02:00: Okay.

00:02:01: Yeah, I already forgot the rest of the question but it's gonna come back to me my practice how It's evolved.

00:02:08: yeah exactly if you could over

00:02:09: the past few years or many years How many what like what kind of span of yours?

00:02:15: and no maybe we could also think Of how many years do you think

00:02:21: You would

00:02:21: consider yourself in this artistic process that your are now?

00:02:25: i suppose If I'm not being facetious, then i would say since I started in school at the contemporary dance department.

00:02:37: At Concordia University so...I suppose I evolved from like making group pieces with movement uh..with a few different people to than making solos on myself.

00:02:57: But the evolution has been like, I think since jumping from making pieces on other people.

00:03:05: Since jumping to myself then it's been more about learning inside of this structure.

00:03:18: that i seem from beginning to end is kind of pick a question or preoccupation, like very practical questions.

00:03:30: Turn it into project and make that project in some kind of adventure land.

00:03:37: then build the adventureland and insert myself live in front other people record my findings via these kinds of situations, conversations and such.

00:03:53: And then you know.

00:03:55: so it tends to be like one Adventureland construction leads to perhaps a more... I don't want use the word ambitious Adventureland Construction but if i was able build that kind of Adventureland Maybe I could try and build this kind of adventure land.

00:04:13: to answer the next question, And maybe i can get even juicier responses.

00:04:18: I don't know about that...I think it's more just like- I like to tickle my brain..and in order to tickLE MY BRAIN I need to change position each time.

00:04:30: And it's, yeah I can relate to what you say because there are always like questions that put in the table also.

00:04:44: Like in terms of performance and performativity all.

00:04:48: so they're... ...and as a field at your work also moves between choreography installation improvisation.. ..and how do you navigate these layers?

00:05:00: Do you think about this when you start make the creation or if goes their?

00:05:04: naturally

00:05:06: I think like the way that I described things, as I was going to say in The Last Paragraph.

00:05:10: No look- In my last answer kind of shows That i'm definitely not okay.

00:05:21: and how will formally take on the task of choreography?

00:05:25: And it's really don't Think about Things that Way...I really do think About Things I guess in much simpler Ways?

00:05:40: Uh... Yes and no, I guess.

00:05:43: Because i think it's then like an amalgamation A gigantic-like amalgamation of a lot of simple desires And kind of quests and propositions that im putting together Which than..I suppose altogether does not seem so Simple But Im addressing one thing after another Just allowing one thing to lead to another.

00:06:08: So when we talk about improvisation, really for me I guess if i think about my relationship to improvisation...I just like think about myself maybe as a what do you call these things?

00:06:23: I've never played this.

00:06:25: a sim card no Sam's.

00:06:30: No I don't play video games.

00:06:31: Oh,

00:06:31: Sims!

00:06:32: Like the video game?

00:06:33: Yeah, Sims yeah...I never played them also..yeah.

00:06:36: Yeah i dont' play these things but when I hear people talk about The Sims and like oh that kind of sounds like- I like the sound to that And it possibly sounds something close to what my approach to making things.

00:06:52: Building worlds then inserting with a character Ugh not the word character

00:06:59: No, no.

00:06:59: But I see what you mean in terms...I think it's really like world-building because

00:07:05: basically

00:07:07: this entering kind of very specific universe with specific codes that some we relate others are trigger more questions or keep us engaged and we follow you all the actions.

00:07:22: actually the work's so fascinating because it keeps me quite actively busy.

00:07:29: So I never feel like a passive state when i'm seeing your shows, which is also enjoyed a lot here.

00:07:36: but this piece specifically departures from The Relationship with Water and with streaming.

00:07:43: could you share with us why?

00:07:45: This topic now and how are we arriving to it?

00:07:49: Yes!

00:07:50: Teen was when I first thought to try such a thing.

00:08:03: In the middle of The Run, actually have Cutlass Spring, the premier in Brussels and I sat with Jeeze & Daniel on there like so what are you working next?

00:08:13: And i'm just like.

00:08:14: well just all in the middle this thing but yeah whenever for sure the tinglings of The Next Processor arriving.

00:08:27: And at that time, my son was taking swimming lessons and so I was like doing this thing every Sunday going to the pool with him swim culture and having a lot of very strong feelings about this, what it was to go the pool in observing him learning.

00:08:50: And everything that brought up for me as person who had tried to learn to swim many times basically kind of unsuccessfully so that like kind of coalesced is at the right word I feel and noticing in myself of how dubious I felt as a person, in the world.

00:09:15: How dubious i felt In The World?

00:09:18: How distrustful I Felt Of Other People And Of Myself And Of My Own Actions.

00:09:26: It Was Just Like Had A Lot Of Questions About my Level Of Comfort As A Human In The Word.

00:09:34: So Yeah!

00:09:37: The Two Things Merged.

00:09:38: What An Interesting a way to look at, perhaps increasing my level of comfort in the world or my level trust myself and other people by learning how to swim which requires obviously just hell-of-a lot of trust building.

00:10:02: That was the beginning

00:10:03: And I also know that you had a series of residencies and classes, including one in Japan.

00:10:10: How was the process for you to arrive into the premiere?

00:10:32: Being able to talk about it with everybody and all of the things that I set up as like kind Of research touch points for myself.

00:10:41: I really very strongly was like oh Yeah, then there's gonna be a piece Like i. really the peace is really am like yeah, okay?

00:10:48: I'll do this thing.

00:10:49: Oh That sounds bad sorry but that's really how I felt.

00:10:54: I

00:10:57: don't think it's bad.

00:10:58: It just shows what we see in the end, its a combination of whole process and world building experience that you had last month to arrive there And this is for most artists like these.

00:11:16: There are moments when sharing comes together.

00:11:21: You share with us your work.

00:11:22: I think

00:11:26: this time it was like just more than clear that arrived at the premiere.

00:11:33: It's always, i've noticed this increasingly with all of the pieces Of course but this one in particular... The premiere is a tiny step along At the very beginning Along the way.

00:11:48: Oh wow!

00:11:48: I have launched This new lifelong project And the premiere a kind of... I mean, it's really like dreamy and very challenging way to set a goal.

00:12:09: A research goal inside of the long-research process.

00:12:14: but yeah i've taken all kinds lessons which led me humans and having all kinds of encounters that I could have, i mean.

00:12:30: Yeah it's so nice with this kind of projects you also enter in maybe like different connections because Of course you are on these process developing the work but also learning how to swim.

00:12:42: So immediately after being a swimming pool And entering into another sphere of society which is not traditional theater or black box.

00:12:54: And actually, this is why I find it also like so interesting the project because you're playing the show in a swimming pool and there's going to be that case here on Berlin Do You Think?

00:13:07: Like The Environment really shifts the way that you perform.

00:13:11: Because if i think about work that was presented in Berlin called Mike It Was In Gruppesbau So it was more installation museum environment.

00:13:22: I don't know, could you share a bit with us as well?

00:13:24: How do also see the shifts according to an environment?

00:13:28: where are.

00:13:29: You know i've done performances outdoors before in places that're not inside of theater.

00:13:36: this is huge difference.

00:13:37: it's doing The kind of work that I'd do Inside of an environment were really no one is expecting This or No Kind Of Knows What To Do With It.

00:13:52: It's really not often that these kinds of things are happening inside a pool, or in the pool environment.

00:13:59: And so there is kind of certain meh risk.

00:14:04: I would say like my courage...I have to boost my courage levels more and be willing look little bit out-of place.

00:14:17: You know, if you're in a theater or museum.

00:14:19: Or even like out when I've done the performance on the field... ...I'm still in a field where there's not really anybody else except for people who have arrived to perform.

00:14:28: so The witnesses are trees and grass and water And they're down with whatever you wanna do unless your hurting them But get into a pool.

00:14:37: that is very codified place, this is how things work and also like legally and safety-wise.

00:14:46: This is how you do

00:14:47: things.".

00:14:48: And then you're trying to come in and have different ideas...and you really have a lot of stares and confusion and fear and wondering so to contend with all of this while trying to try stuff out.

00:15:09: um And on top of it, you're a person who's learning to swim.

00:15:14: So already here like pretty freaked out by where you are is quite an... Is very new and for sure this I don't think i still have not done no just the beginning So I can't fully analyze the repercussions on my person, but they're definitely there.

00:15:41: And that they've definitely fed their creation more than ever... That it really is site-specific and not site specific to a specific pool.

00:15:56: But like It's piece the lego me encountering, The Lego Pool.

00:16:05: I just really have LEGO in my mind now and picturing like taking of the figurine okay?

00:16:12: And then i insert this piece on the head and that on the body.

00:16:19: No, but I think it's true what you said about these codes that exist in the swimming pool and sometimes there are security codes.

00:16:28: But also a lot of social codes.

00:16:32: actually they're not written anywhere.

00:16:34: so i think this is where confusion comes from because for example like I often go to swim And there's this unspoken rule that some tracks will be faster for the fastest swimmers and others for slower swimmers.

00:16:52: But actually, swim pools don't have these indications.

00:16:56: So you sometimes have a mix of speeds inside same lane.

00:17:01: This creates confusion or irritation but nobody told where to go like unspoken social rules inside of swimming pool, also that I feel you play with.

00:17:16: Also how are moving the space?

00:17:19: How do we enter into water or interact with objects?

00:17:24: so it's exciting for public to see everything gets looked upon in a more creative way on your work.

00:17:38: And then now I'm thinking about the title of the piece.

00:17:41: So, The Title is You Cannot Can?

00:17:44: I am also very intrigued by the title because it's so playful and has two aspects to Cannot Uncan but there are kind of a refusal or possibility...I don't know if you could share with us how you got into the title.

00:18:06: a lot of fun making your title or work quite a bit because I really like playing with words.

00:18:15: So, the first thing there's multiple ways that i could answer that.

00:18:21: but already what you just mentioned how much movement is inherent inside of the combination of these three words.

00:18:31: it was very exciting for me opens, like not just in terms of how it sounds or saying yet but when you try to associate meaning with these three words.

00:18:45: Any kind of vessel that I can create for making more space and pathways is the way I think with all of my collaborators it's like this, but yeah.

00:19:11: It really is... But we talk a lot about materials and plasticity!

00:19:18: So i spend a lot of time looking at things and talking about things and researching other things And so were looking different kinds of gerry cans.

00:19:32: I don't know how widespread that word is so fluent now in my landscape, but a jerrycan...

00:19:39: Where you put like petrol

00:19:43: or

00:19:44: canisters?

00:19:46: Or it's the same words.

00:19:48: Yeah!

00:19:49: A jerry-can is… The definition open.. But the term was coined by the British and Germans by the Germans.

00:20:00: Oh, yeah!

00:20:02: Anyway, exactly it's meant to transport petrol or gas but also water.

00:20:08: and so we were researching jerrycans of course looking at different colors shapes and forms because I just felt like... was that me?

00:20:24: Or was it

00:20:24: Khomei?...I

00:20:25: don't know who proposed it..but And I discovered, I found this article for instance about...I can't remember which country anymore in Africa.

00:20:37: I found an article like a local town or person who had taken to teaching the children how to swim by using gerry cans because they're really good flotation devices.

00:20:55: So I was telling this story to my collaborators, and then Yoann said... He either said it or he wrote in a group chat.

00:21:04: If Jerry can everybody can?

00:21:08: And obviously i turned this around in my head many times because I had all kinds of different titles but after that I started playing with the sentence about like fifty variations.

00:21:23: Yeah, I was with my son.

00:21:27: We narrowed it down to.

00:21:28: you cannot can

00:21:29: create.

00:21:30: yeah Thanks a lot for sharing this aspect of the object because they are actually very important during the piece.

00:21:41: so and Mean water in itself carries a lot of meanings right?

00:21:48: And you also spoke about these fear and trust aspect that also water and swimming brings to you.

00:21:56: And there's, of course like this playful aspects of the swimming pools but maybe also a space for transformation when you start learning how to swim so you can achieve it as person.

00:22:12: I wonder if your relationship with water changed

00:22:20: after going through all these processes.

00:22:23: Definitely.

00:22:24: It's definitely been a huge evolution One... I don't know if it was after which show, but one of the lifeguards Oh no!

00:22:36: Was after The Last Show And i just like sitting in the pool for that last time and one of my lifeguardes was like You know thank you I've never seen anything like this And definitely not here.

00:22:52: Um, and then he was asking me like oh how did you come to make this work?

00:22:59: I told him that i was learning a swim That had been scared of the water.

00:23:08: He's like people who are afraid can't do what they were doing in there.

00:23:18: And then he said, well I guess unless of course you've done the thing where you stepped into someone's character who is not scared anymore.

00:23:28: So while your inside that character are able to be brave but when you step outside a character still scared?

00:23:41: had all of this like dramaturgical reflection or psychological reflection.

00:23:45: Anyway, the point is I definitely feel way more comfortable in the water and just really excited to continue to learn...I mean really impatient!

00:24:00: Like really annoyed.

00:24:01: now actually You know, when you're talking about the fast lane and slow lane that's still far away for me.

00:24:07: Like the idea of getting into the lanes with people like.

00:24:10: I don't know when it is going to be possible.

00:24:12: It so intimidating!

00:24:13: I can go in the lanes And now i've been really spoiled rotten because all this time by myself I look forward to being able get in a lane and swim with other people.

00:24:42: Yes, this is like different swimming pools on the front kind of lanes.

00:24:47: so yeah that's okay you're gonna find something here.

00:24:51: And we both like our talks.

00:24:53: through the preparation or project he also brought these aspects.

00:25:00: people learned water and access to swimming, especially also like if we think about race in class.

00:25:07: Do you want to share with us as well that aspect?

00:25:10: And how it then went into the piece.

00:25:15: when I was learning to swim... ...and i don't remember when I Was very young but When I came back again Like In my late teens or early twenties The thing That was repeated To me over and Over Again Well, you know black people have a harder time swimming because the bones are denser like You can't float as much.

00:25:35: Like your always gonna struggle more to swim.

00:25:40: This was Every swim teacher that I had said this very easily and so on top of already having...I mean i grew up in Ottawa In Canada So it's not exactly us is exactly a swim capital.

00:26:00: So already it's not as though I had a lot of exposure to seeing my family swimming and such, but when i would go to St Lucia where they're from in the Caribbean... Not much changed like no one was swimming.

00:26:15: certainly when I would say to my grandmother that I'm going to the beach!

00:26:19: And she'd kind-of laugh.

00:26:21: you know why?

00:26:22: Why are you doing

00:26:23: that?!

00:26:25: There were lots of fear um, around the water.

00:26:28: There was a lot of fear and then there were a lot very practical reasons why you know... The people with long hair wouldn't go into the water because it's Very labor-intensive to have this texture of hair And to get it wet!

00:26:46: I can go in too well Because we don't have time.

00:26:50: but like just that aspect alone the relationship between Hair and water, like black hair in water.

00:26:59: And it's just a tiny aspect.

00:27:01: but when I started thinking about these things and thinking about why i couldn't swim then you know...I barely had to scratch a little bit to uncover the really wild statistics on how many....the low percentage of members of global majority who could swim.

00:27:26: I mean, it was wild and its really dangerous.

00:27:31: So It became like instantly inserted itself inside of my research process.

00:27:38: Of course God...I can say so much about this Like just today.

00:27:45: Yeah

00:27:46: Let's go for it We have time.

00:27:49: I noticed that Today i don't know what the story is But one British swim groups that I follow.

00:27:59: So now there's, and again i'm only talking about like the black community... There is this beautiful movement of worldwide people from Black communities making an effort to have swim lessons And get rid of this idea That Black People Can't Swim.

00:28:25: get rid of the myth, the myths around black people swimming but also like actually trying to offer swim lessons for um...people from The Baw community.

00:28:36: Not just The Blaw Community But People Who Can't Swim In General.

00:28:39: Anyway.

00:28:41: So I follow a lot of these groups now and i noticed today on Instagram that there are three Black women who died uh in the past few days Um..in near Brighton in the UK.

00:28:59: And there's no answers as to why, but they like found three black women and they were all sisters... This is really morbid what I'm saying!

00:29:14: They're okay.

00:29:16: so far police can't find any foul play.

00:29:19: my mind immediately did one of them try didn't have the skill set and then did one go, I just immediately.

00:29:30: my first thought was oh Did somebody attempt to swim?

00:29:33: And they couldn't do it.

00:29:34: Then all got... That's quite significant right?

00:29:40: that is a thing of mind for any other group.

00:29:47: you would be like Oh!

00:29:49: Did They...?

00:29:51: I don't know.

00:29:55: My mind went somewhere directly.

00:29:58: go there directly with like a white person or three white people had been found in the water.

00:30:06: It's not freezing cold at this time of year, you know?

00:30:11: There wasn't big event going on anyway.

00:30:16: Yeah I'm kind of lost in what i'm saying because now...I just read it an hour ago.

00:30:24: so

00:30:26: Sure, sure.

00:30:27: I mean we also like following a bit this track about how so important it is for lots of communities to have access to the swimming pools and access to watchers And also access to lessons on how swim because indeed there's very huge discrepancy between the statistics Of which groups are most susceptible to drown Because they don't know how to swim something that it's like interweaving in the piece.

00:30:56: And also, It is very good to speak about because this is a concrete reality of many people and then go back into your pieces.

00:31:11: we will experience here in Berlin.

00:31:13: I thought there was always tension between virgin ability and more experimental, and testing aspect that you bring into your pieces so to confront the spectator.

00:31:27: Is this created let's say actively on purpose or is something that emerges from the creation?

00:31:37: I think especially just decided of vulnerability because a while ago we also talked about courage right?

00:31:43: Also like the courage to engage in these projects.

00:31:45: also courage really acknowledge.

00:31:47: okay I don't know how to swim, or really want to learn how to stream as an adult.

00:31:53: So this...I feel that also puts you in a very vulnerable place.

00:31:59: so then share with us Is it the way that you construct the pieces?

00:32:03: Also test yourself How is was specific for these projects?

00:32:10: Oh yeah now its all project's For sure Because what i go into a project wanting to learn something.

00:32:19: So, necessarily my level of knowledge around something is low and so what I'm interested in is trying and sharing the trying and being held accountable for trying which like no better way to do that than to propose to try something in front of a large group of strangers?

00:32:40: It's wild but... I couldn't possibly hold myself more accountable for actually doing things that i want to be doing.

00:32:49: But you know, it's yeah there's... It's making me think a lot about this idea of kind-of level of polish or mastery or command Or like knowing That seems to often be expected from a proposal, a book performance.

00:33:21: A song... It's really starting to fascinate me.

00:33:26: the kind of low level of tolerance that we have for watching people try to do something as opposed to watching people know how to do some thing?

00:33:38: I think for sure huge part is just human right.

00:33:42: when you're watching someone They're a little bit wobbly and then you feel a little like, are you okay?

00:33:50: And exactly that makes you very active participant.

00:33:54: Maybe in the way we weren't expecting to be when... You expect it.

00:33:58: come just watch something and take it in!

00:34:04: I'm not proposing that you can't just watch and take them but I guess inherently because i am trying something.

00:34:12: Yeah, it's like... It is activating.

00:34:15: But I'm not going.

00:34:18: my goal in making- Is to make people uncomfortable or nervous?

00:34:22: Or kind of be like she so vulnerable.

00:34:25: we feel uncomfortable!

00:34:27: Like.

00:34:28: i just find it much more interesting when I am participating and something that I want have something.

00:34:35: do this how.

00:34:39: This is where the investment starts.

00:34:41: for me, it's like oh I also have something to do.

00:34:44: I'm also figuring out with you and when something is handed to me, I'll just lie

00:34:49: down.".

00:34:50: Like I've nothing to do or not invested.

00:34:55: so... Yeah!

00:34:57: Just offer that kind of engagement that myself am interested in having while taking something in.

00:35:08: a while ago.

00:35:11: So I was speaking about how, when i'm seeing your projects and shows that also keeps me in very active engaged mode because there are things happening of course.

00:35:26: Also the fact we're in different space which is not usual black theater.

00:35:31: so of course...I feel much more aware on my body.

00:35:38: It's an open space, there is light everywhere.

00:35:41: So we're not like protected in a back box or seat so much more with you and the whole action process than if it was traditional blackbox theater.

00:35:58: yeah And this brings me to another aspect that I wanted to think together.

00:36:07: public is important for you.

00:36:10: Because, again speaking about Mike where people are moving around you or even exactly like the last piece here in The Swimming Pool.

00:36:18: we're very close to...to YOU!

00:36:20: We were sharing this kind of same space and yeah I was wondering how you feel about that?

00:36:26: And if it's really kinda..how do you also feel inside of the peace with its proximity of the public?

00:36:33: Since making Mike exactly as you said or even before.

00:36:39: Each piece has made me want to share a little bit more and more, you know?

00:36:46: I would say that like Yellow Towel it was really kind of a shy preteen... And don't look at me!

00:36:56: I'm gonna show this but don't!

00:36:59: It's for ME!

00:36:59: I don't know!

00:37:03: With each piece i am okay.

00:37:06: Again, this trust building process I'm like okay.

00:37:09: I am ready to share a little bit more and maybe you might be interested in seeing that thing or the object again.

00:37:20: i'll go back.

00:37:21: yellow towel.

00:37:22: probably people could see ten percent of things actually doing are engaging with.

00:37:29: there's so many hidden treasures meant for me to act as activators And I just became more and more ready, wanting to share these activators.

00:37:42: Ready in wanting them to share this kind of treasures.

00:37:44: that was engaging or like a memory talismans...and such!

00:37:55: Then it also made the quest on less solo really....I'm thinking about This moment where I'm, it's so specific to this pool in Brussels or like walking out of the pool and seeing someone just leaning over.

00:38:19: The edge really right above my head... To be engaged with whatever you know?

00:38:25: The choreography at that time And have somebody close.

00:38:32: for me It is such a beautiful way of encountering strangers that how else could this happen?

00:38:40: Like, This way of communicating with people I don't know.

00:38:46: It feels so incredible to be able to casually engineer this kind of encountering.

00:38:57: and when i was thinking about making a piece for the pool again much like Mike engineer a way for me to be very close to people and have them like it wasn't.

00:39:11: um but It's so fun.

00:39:14: To watch how okay, this is what this produces Like.

00:39:17: I really just feel like uh A really a lab scientist the kind of elapsed a casual lab scientists Just like if i put this together in this oh What produces that great again?

00:39:29: And you know when they take notes and we're like

00:39:33: Yeah, I think it's exactly the fact that there is also this openness about how you act and so we are in a space with you.

00:39:45: This allows of course these encounters to take place And this actually very beautiful because as well notice when people are outside of their usual traditional theater spaces So the body moves in different way.

00:39:59: Also, people behave in different ways because it's not specific.

00:40:05: So they don't have to follow the traditional course of the theater.

00:40:08: so this allows also like another receptioner off-the-works I feel yeah and

00:40:14: pretty curious site you mentioned that before?

00:40:16: Like oh no i'm some so Curious too...I wish I could be on the outside so I can see exactly what was happening.

00:40:26: You know an in the first First two nights with What day did you come?

00:40:32: I saw the second show.

00:40:35: Ah, interesting!

00:40:38: And because each time people moved more and more... We specifically also gave a note by Show Three that you can move to change your sight line.

00:40:53: So first two were quite static not moving too much And that's it.

00:41:03: By the end, there was just like lots and lots of movement which was a big question in how to manage that?

00:41:13: Is that what I wanted?

00:41:15: If

00:41:15: you want that or not yeah Yeah That is another thing.

00:41:18: Of course we have to talk about that also.

00:41:23: We are still arranging things.

00:41:27: It's not only about the physical movement, I mean in terms of crossing space or something.

00:41:37: These small signs for example like that we have to take out our shoes because we are entering a swimming pool area so there is water on the floor and you cannot bring dirty shoes inside.

00:41:50: Just this fact it kind changes also way people move.

00:41:54: they interact with each other.

00:41:58: So yeah, it's really exciting that we're gonna bring you to Berlin and do some of this work.

00:42:04: It has been in a long process since being like along on beautiful dialogue to get here.

00:42:10: Maybe final question to close.

00:42:13: the episode is just I wonder what do you hope people carry with them when they leave the show?

00:42:26: If whatever they see doesn't match with what ever they think, like the less tension there can be around.

00:42:37: I saw this is right?

00:42:40: The less of that possible would be great!

00:42:45: Yeah...I really just want for maximum interpretation elasticity.

00:42:55: That's very beautiful and I think also It aligns also with the work that you do.

00:43:00: totally, yeah.

00:43:01: So thanks again once for the talk and see you soon here in Berlin then yes!

00:43:11: Exciting

00:43:12: cool

00:43:13: thank you.