Tanz im August Podcast #19 - Kareth Schaffer & Jonas Hauer

00:00:05: Welcome to the Tanzimagust podcast.

00:00:09: This podcast series is part of The Tanzimagusta Festival, presented by Hau Heblam-Ufa this year.

00:00:16: it takes place from thirteenths two twenty ninths of August in Berlin.

00:00:21: several artists from this years program have been invited to join a conversation series.

00:00:27: In each episode they share insights into their lives and creative work talk about their past and current projects, an offering in-depth perspectives on the works they are presenting at Tansim August twenty-twenty six.

00:00:45: In this episode Alina Lauer, dramaturg & producer of The Festival talked with Karis Schaffer and Jonas Hauer.

00:00:52: They will present their new work Bad Dances On Twenty Six, Twenty Sevens, Twenty Eighth And Twenty Ninth Of August At How Three.

00:01:01: So, hello!

00:01:02: Carys and Jonas.

00:01:03: I'm very happy that we can talk together today about your work as artists in exchange for all of you who don't know each other.

00:01:12: I sit here with Carys Schaffer and Jonas Hauer And it would be great if both of us could imagine what she does exactly.

00:01:22: What art form or aesthetics are working on?

00:01:29: Where do you

00:01:30: live?

00:01:31: Hello, I'm Karat Schaefer.

00:01:32: I've been a choreographer in Berlin since... ...I was almost my entire adult life here.

00:01:40: I originally came from the States and landed over the Netherlands somehow in Germany.

00:01:47: Sometimes i say that i have an expanded understanding of choreography but it actually means not only dancing.

00:01:59: every possible performative talent that my actors bring with them.

00:02:08: Whether it's jokes, stories, singing, writing... No matter what, take part on the stage somehow.

00:02:21: I'm very interested in a lot of things!

00:02:29: So I work

00:02:30: based on topics.

00:02:33: What interests me right now is trying to make pieces out there.

00:02:43: Great thank you so much.

00:02:45: My name is Jonas, I'm a musician and pianist mainly from Berlin.

00:02:58: relatively many theater and pop things, a bit of jazz.

00:03:04: So I'm kind of thrown back and forth from the waves or something like that.

00:03:11: It feels more for me because often it's not my decision what to do in which direction this is going but rather comes from outside.

00:03:20: so then I go with them.

00:03:22: Exactly!

00:03:23: The second thing I write audio descriptions for films, so the film description is for blind and blind people.

00:03:31: And that's why I'm here because I've been blind since my second year of life.

00:03:41: That's why as a recipient there was a lot to do with audio descriptions... ...and then it went on like this again when it came from outside.

00:03:50: Then somehow I slipped in first over short films And then I made a lot of art films.

00:03:57: Now, in the theater audio description that is completely different to me... ...I'm also particularly interested in the artistic aspect of the audio description.

00:04:08: That means how can I describe something?

00:04:12: A text level to an optical level without just clashing on it or adding another line.

00:04:24: But how do I connect the whole thing to a unity?

00:04:28: You call it integrative or integrated audio description, as you always want.

00:04:34: So i don't want to be a stranger when writing something but rather want to integrate that into the work.

00:04:39: That's what we came up with together, me and Caris, so once I'm really happy for this piece.

00:04:49: But then we also thought about how it is possible to integrate a kind of audio description or say that we want the piece to be acoustic, purely acoustic.

00:05:05: It's super interesting and I think there will soon be more of us going into this.

00:05:09: There are really many interesting points to clarify which I believe... quite new for many people who will listen to this podcast.

00:05:17: And before we go further on, maybe once you work together with the song But Dances, so Fledermaus Tänze in German and it's also about the last part of a trilogy can be said like that, right?

00:05:32: Maybe you could explain us more about it again.

00:05:36: and perhaps what does this trilogy have in common as well?

00:05:39: It all goes along with different animals Exactly.

00:05:44: Please tell us a little bit about

00:05:46: that.

00:05:46: First of all, the disclaimer.

00:05:48: Many people think if it's about a trilogy then when you have missed part one and two they won't be able to follow the third one at all.

00:06:00: I know many of my colleagues in contemporary dance work somehow with trilogies but since we are more non-linear and experimental art forms Sometimes they don't have that much to do with each other.

00:06:14: So every single one of my trilogies... Actually, the trilogy itself has no name!

00:06:19: Maybe we can think of something.

00:06:21: But there were twenty-one and twenty bee dances There are twenty four I would say birddances And there are now twenty-six and twenty bad dances.

00:06:35: So you notice the red threads, they're kind of small flying animals.

00:06:43: but the trilogy in general... so that's the high concept base from this trilogy is how can pieces be made for two different audiences?

00:06:53: But they meet in a common space.

00:06:56: So the same piece with two audiences and for me that was actually important from B-dances.

00:07:10: I had relatively much to do with classical Balinese dancing, so dance from Indonesia And i came together with one choreographer from java also from Indonesia.

00:07:23: Actually, the question was asked together.

00:07:27: How can we make a piece that actually uses the codes of European contemporary theater as well as the codes from traditional Balinese artists?

00:07:39: And then there's basically the figure of Biene who is very co-working.

00:07:44: Wesen is taken and a piece by the classical Balinese repertoire Oleg Tamo-Lillingan used to create this piece, which was performed in Berlin.

00:07:56: And also at the Bali Arts Festival, the traditional Balinese art festival in Den Passa we performed for these different audiences.

00:08:06: It also went a little bit about it ... of course I work very long in Berlin!

00:08:13: within this

00:08:15: form

00:08:15: of theater.

00:08:17: So I was kind of a representative in the European tons context.

00:08:21: and then Bird Dances is just further.

00:08:23: with these thoughts, so what makes me look like a choreographer?

00:08:27: What makes my interests and where are my white spots ?

00:08:31: What can't be experienced from my perspective at all , let's say that way .

00:08:38: And we went ... on the land in north-east Germany, so really a super rural region.

00:08:45: Because I was interested how people who live there stand up to dance and also birds because everyone likes some kind of bird and people from Mecklenburg may not necessarily like dancing but are very interested for nature and birds were somehow such good common nannies.

00:09:04: then at one point this idea came.

00:09:06: maybe it could be a trilogy.

00:09:08: I love fledermaus much more than birds or bees, actually.

00:09:13: So i'm a full-fledermaus fan for years... for almost my whole life!

00:09:17: When i was seven, when i dressed up as a fledermeuse to see the fledemeuse exhibition and they let me in for free.

00:09:27: that's so... It sounds like a legend from Caris Schaefer somehow.

00:09:31: So bats were in the room And then it was back around.

00:09:34: okay what?

00:09:35: What do bats make of it?

00:09:38: And flea mice make themselves out of eco-ordnance.

00:09:41: Somehow I came up with the idea that people also have an eco-order, and this is a technique which will be spread in the blind community further and further.

00:09:50: So maybe these two audience who should bring me together with Bert Janssen see how they are also very hindered by humans!

00:10:02: Jonas got to know him and then it worked out.

00:10:05: And now we're going to do a piece, just one of the pieces for seeing how blind people are simply aesthetically coherent.

00:10:14: So they don't have the same experience?

00:10:17: That's not possible either!

00:10:21: But that is his final experience.

00:10:22: It was an experience he made for her.

00:10:25: About Fledermäuser

00:10:26: Thank you very much, this sounds exciting already.

00:10:28: We're really looking forward to see or experiencing And what you're talking about is the so-called aesthetics of access.

00:10:35: That's also a bit where Jonas mentioned earlier in his introduction course and maybe Jonas would like to go into it again more precisely, how exactly does that work?

00:10:43: How do we say such an additional level can be integrated into one piece which then becomes accessible for blind or blind audience members as well as a coherent aesthetic experience – how exactly are you

00:11:00: working on this?

00:11:01: The classic way is if we stay in this performance context, so I don't know theater dance

00:11:08: etc.,

00:11:09: that you have the performance on stage and because of headphones or also open it's a voice that describes what just happened.

00:11:22: So no idea A comes from right... Take the flower vase, turn left.

00:11:32: The light will be dark.

00:11:33: Rebuild... Or for example in the description of the stage, the stage is so big that it has two chairs in the middle and so on.

00:11:41: That means this would be the classic form.

00:11:45: It's like this works.

00:11:46: Of course there are more or less clear impressions from what just happened on the stage But it is, in most cases, gradually added.

00:11:59: That means the production is finished and then theater says or whatever we want for this piece of audio description.

00:12:08: Then you get a video from the GP.

00:12:11: so last time at some point general test Or if you're lucky You know that's kind of like two three weeks before the premiere And there are videos about all these things.

00:12:22: And then you write, because most of the time you sit at home and write to this piece or video a little bit like movie, so that your text would be written.

00:12:33: This one will be spoken live during the presentation.

00:12:37: That's how it is as long-term or still going on in the theater area, especially in the theatre area but also in the dance area.

00:12:49: It has all its advantages and works great too.

00:12:54: There are a lot of great authors who write really well.

00:12:57: The idea that has been going on for several years now is to say, maybe it's possible... ...to integrate this descriptive line into the piece beforehand in some form?

00:13:11: Either way if you're talking about theater and people writing down what they do on stage themselves You could say I'll take my coffee cup here I start thinking, oh, a delicious coffee.

00:13:25: Come on!

00:13:25: I'll give it to you and then the other person says

00:13:27: thanks.".

00:13:27: You can verbalize everything?

00:13:29: You don't have to.

00:13:31: So in theater, as I know that most of them are not verbalized because there is a lot going on here.

00:13:37: But this would be possible if one integrates the audio description into the piece like so .

00:13:41: A second possibility would be making sounds about it , for example when someone runs over the stage, they could say, Person A takes ... No shoes.

00:13:52: Person B wears shoes with high notes and person C wears house shoes, which means I would then be able to distinguish through the sound who is moving right now?

00:14:04: And where does that person be located?

00:14:05: That's how it is possible... And of course you still have a chance by costumes for example so we can say the costumes people wear are definitely sounds.

00:14:13: Someone clings, claps, roars, let us try all these things.

00:14:19: Alternatives to the text track, to the classic form are of course less concrete.

00:14:25: Because there will always be fewer pure descriptions about what you're seeing right now.

00:14:32: You have that in the language level at first But they are more connected with the piece And this is actually something which we've been experimenting on for the last few years.

00:14:44: We are all fully experimenting.

00:14:46: How far can we go?

00:14:48: that we say, let's go away from this classic... Here is the voice and it explains what works in front of us.

00:14:54: This totally subtle concrete rationality.

00:14:59: And how far can we go or how much do you think we can solve?

00:15:02: And become a little more unconcrete but also integrate into the piece and still lose the experience.

00:15:08: And I think that's what we're going to try at Bad Dances now.

00:15:13: So, another experiment where you just look... How far do we go?

00:15:16: Of course there will be less concrete.

00:15:19: That means i won't know exactly which movements the Fledermaus is currently doing on stage right now.

00:15:25: I would know if we build a language barrier

00:15:28: like

00:15:29: this.

00:15:29: But!

00:15:29: I'm more into the piece and have an other experience because of course I mainly have the sounds.

00:15:33: I have acoustic.

00:15:34: I'll try to integrate much in music What works.

00:15:38: We talk a lot with the costume designer.

00:15:41: That means we try to go more on sound level, which also means that we will probably have another experience as Blinda and Sivina viewers when we perceive this piece .

00:15:53: So we won't experience what people see but it works anyway only in marginal.

00:16:01: But how are you going to have other experiences hopefully just

00:16:08: as key if maybe on an other level too?

00:16:10: And there I'll just hook up and also say that dancing, the medium dance even though it's mostly non-verbal is very difficult somehow for audio description.

00:16:22: It's kind of more difficult.

00:16:23: so I think blind audience goes into opera rather than in dance pieces.

00:16:29: but exactly because he already has this non narrative perspective.

00:16:35: Can it also be that we hope the people will accept that this unimaginable distance and movement actually makes a kind of concert?

00:16:49: And also the haptic or high-pitched aspects from dancing to moving bodies.

00:16:59: Yes, I think so too!

00:17:01: The dance is usually very strong, especially the more abstract or conceptual dance about physicalities that are of course also acoustic and haptic as you say.

00:17:13: Or in this sense where your body is in a room somehow means something and less over concrete statements.

00:17:20: That's why I can imagine it so well to work with such a sensual level and make the experience before the meaning production

00:17:32: perhaps in the foreground.

00:17:33: And this podcast is also in German.

00:17:35: The song is really in German and English, so it's a solo performance by Leo Katz... ...and she changes the whole time with our thoughts behind her.

00:17:47: This idea that you can have a theater experience without having to learn everything literally... exactly for the audience.

00:18:00: Of course, there are a lot of people who speak German and English very well.

00:18:06: And luckily almost all in our team are like that!

00:18:10: But we don't want to say that the average dancing August audience can do it... ...and they shouldn't have the feeling either that you get an aesthetic experience because they don't speak English or German.

00:18:26: I think it's very interesting to think about this, so our perception is limited on what we can perceive.

00:18:37: By the way, Fledermäuse has a huge topic but we could perceive them very difficult in the dark and... and scream too loud that we can hear them.

00:18:46: But this idea of perception, who can perceive what?

00:18:50: And how does it influence our... What do you think the world is like in such a way?

00:18:57: It's an important subtext to all these experiments!

00:19:03: Yes I think there are exactly exciting points where there will be some touch-ups because for the audience they're my experience.

00:19:13: You often have the feeling that you take everything seriously.

00:19:20: When I go to a performance like this, then I take it all seriously because... ...I can see and hear music but maybe I still feel something or so.

00:19:28: As a blind person i think you are used much more than you know.

00:19:31: There is also a whole bunch of things here which I don't perceive myself as.

00:19:35: And I try to build my bridges in such a way by transferring from one level into another.

00:19:43: But for me Even if I move outside, it's completely clear that this area which is not perceived right now... ...is just a part of it.

00:19:53: And because the world is very optically aligned with scenes, you sometimes forget about them.

00:20:03: It's basically necessary to be so that everything isn't perceived at all.

00:20:07: That's what we're trying to do here in Finland and that's totally okay for us too.

00:20:10: but I think being aware can create a very beautiful change of perception and especially the world perception.

00:20:22: I really hope that people will see, hear or perceive this piece and just go out there and say wow!

00:20:29: It's kind of like a super complex world where you don't experience anything from it at all.

00:20:35: That means

00:20:35: I could go in as a visible viewer and basically close my eyes.

00:20:43: And try it out when I'm curious about how this

00:20:45: is for me, right?

00:20:46: Or we force that to happen because of the lights off

00:20:49: or something

00:20:50: like that!

00:20:52: But I think that's already an excuse for us... ...that maybe all of them will be translated together into question... what I actually was and why.

00:21:10: And fear is a big topic because Fledermäuser are threatened by climate change, we discuss the whole time about it but are they afraid of climate change?

00:21:22: Probably not!

00:21:22: Because they can't take it as an abstract term.

00:21:26: They're Fledermäuse

00:21:29: At least that's how I understand it, in the concept of carousel.

00:21:34: The fact is... ...that the mouses are there and either you see them or not but you don't hear them even though they communicate very loudly all the time!

00:21:46: But just within a frequency we can't hear.

00:21:47: That means again this thing about perception has something to do with it And i'm not taking it for granted.

00:21:52: It still is fully there, so loud as an airplane Just because it moves on another level or other dimension And that is very exemplary for a lot of things.

00:22:08: For me, it's... Exactly!

00:22:10: A lot comes from my daily life.

00:22:13: Yes we are moving

00:22:14: more and more towards the protagonist in all this work, namely the mousetrap.

00:22:22: And there are also many interesting points.

00:22:24: You have already mentioned a few, for example the communication via the echo order that the Fledermäuse has but also

00:22:33: e.g.,

00:22:33: night activity as well as mixing with symbols or myths.

00:22:38: we know of people and the things which we actually put on our side in Fledermeuse.

00:22:45: Yes you recently had an Fledermaus tour where it was possible to go to the Gleisdreieckpark in Berlin together with a lady from the Natural Protection Fund to take over a device.

00:22:58: Please tell us more about Fledermäuse and what you have discovered so excitingly there?

00:23:04: We actually experienced a lot of exciting things, that Christine Kunert von der Nabow is an enthusiastic tour guide for Fledermeustur in these bed detectors which are more or less a high-frequency microphone, and then the frequencies in which the flea mice scream down to make them audible for people.

00:23:32: So we also thought that it was good for seabed hinders and blind audiences to observe nature in a good way so as not to disturb us.

00:23:45: We only heard of dwarf fleas.

00:23:46: I think there was once a big

00:23:48: evening sailor, allegedly.

00:23:50: But we weren't very sure about it.

00:23:53: and where we were supposed to actually give water springs, but somehow too late or... We were too early!

00:24:01: What

00:24:02: is the difference between these springs?

00:24:05: Are they really made of water

00:24:07: springs from the water or are they on the water?

00:24:09: They fly over the waterways, so it should be on the Landwehrkanal because they're flying to the water.

00:24:16: So these are just extremely different in their sounds.

00:24:22: The dwarf moustache sounds a little bit like... less or less?

00:24:27: Like.

00:24:28: maybe Jonas can do better after frame of this moustachio?

00:24:32: It's quite perfect how you did that!

00:24:35: And

00:24:35: then evening saenglers make a sort of black noise.

00:24:38: So you can really hold them by the hands of your calls, allegedly.

00:24:43: But good because we only heard the twerkblädermäuse... I just heard that there was someone in my big evening saegler but they are very connected to certain places, like the Zwerg-Fledermäuse.

00:25:04: They fly around trees because it's so big in the evening.

00:25:09: Marc likes to go far away and fly over seas or places with not that many trees.

00:25:17: And the water-Federmäuser just fly along the waterways as well.

00:25:20: And they also come out at different times of day a little bit like the bird voice clock by bird that you can measure time before sunrise on which bird is currently Sing.

00:25:33: It's a bit similar to Fledermäuse, where the big evening saiyans are in the demo room and the water fledermause comes only when it is so dark.

00:25:42: For example we learned many bad facts on tour!

00:25:48: And again after our second show in August... So we're going to have another Fledermaus tour and that was actually extremely quickly booked.

00:26:00: Of course, it's also limited the number of participants because there aren't a lot of bed detectors available right now.

00:26:07: so this is limited by about twenty-five people.

00:26:09: but if you are included then be included!

00:26:11: You've also written in your description for the piece that it should possibly go around the topic of vampires or other... Yes, rolls or mueses that are hanging around the flea mice.

00:26:24: You're already in process with Leia Katz.

00:26:27: Have you ever worked out something like

00:26:31: this?

00:26:31: Actually not so much but I think we're just looking forward to the crunchiness of the fleas.

00:26:38: Of course they also stimulate... well it comes from its long connection between vampires and night and the semi-mystical ones.

00:26:53: So there's a lot of black in the idea.

00:26:56: We have my roughness, but until now we haven't had any... We've been working on some textual stuff with Lia for quite some time and I don't know where it is going to be.

00:27:07: But I think that vampires will only appear at the edge.

00:27:13: or what do you mean

00:27:14: Jonas?

00:27:14: So far, there is definitely no scene where Lia comes out of the saga.

00:27:18: And

00:27:19: you always have to look at that and I think it will stay like this too.

00:27:22: But let's go back a little bit about the perception.

00:27:25: For people who don't see it right now This experience with this bed detector Is just as if... Imagine as a scene person, you put on glasses and suddenly you see around yourself how some spiritual beings move.

00:27:42: They are there all the time but they don't see it at first with this aid.

00:27:49: And that's what happened to me!

00:27:52: I mean... It is not something which happens all of a sudden in these moments But i do not hear it.

00:28:01: I only hear through this spiritual aid or magical aid the key to a kind of parallel universe.

00:28:12: And I think that's pretty grueling as well, because we have... Funnily enough when you look at the connection between vampire and flair mouse it is this indescribable... You don't know exactly where they are right now.

00:28:30: in the newer vampire films That's how it is.

00:28:33: The vampires are super fast, too!

00:28:35: They're in the old ones... In the stupid movies they were still so Dracula-like that you need like ten seconds to get out of the door with them?

00:28:45: But things have changed a little bit.

00:28:47: So this fear aspect or grusel aspect exists as well and they're really fast.

00:28:52: You don't see them anymore but at night they're on their way.

00:28:57: And something similar happens also for the flea mice.

00:29:02: But even if you don't see her, she still hears it.

00:29:10: She's there anyway and I think that is a pretty big aspect which one can also show without being able to work with flat, hanging and pointed scenes.

00:29:26: always a little bit in the subtext.

00:29:29: Yes, maybe there

00:29:31: is also a small remark from me because one colleague was also part of the Fledermaus tour and she also said out of seeing perspective that they can actually see first over the detector then the fledermäuse hat with her eyes Because otherwise they are so invisible and so fast through the contours.

00:29:48: And you don't even look right there!

00:29:49: So we do not have a view of people who see it at all to recognize them, but should actually understand first about their brain from which direction that might come or where we would have to look when.

00:30:00: I think this is also totally interesting somehow

00:30:02: .

00:30:02: And if one becomes aware again ,

00:30:04: i.e.,

00:30:05: these ultra-sharp frequencies ... That was really only At Fledermäuse, in the fifties.

00:30:12: it was found that they make this ultrasonic noise.

00:30:15: So for most of mankind... You know?

00:30:17: It must have been completely unconnected like these creatures at all!

00:30:24: Why?!

00:30:25: Do you know?

00:30:26: how do they fly?

00:30:27: How can they navigate without seeing them?

00:30:31: That's why the Fledermaus itself is just crudely enough.

00:30:38: I think so.

00:30:39: And that's what I mean as Fledermaus-lover, so to speak... So it doesn't matter if they're grumpy or we hate them but this should fascinate us for being able

00:30:54: to be

00:30:54: different

00:30:54: from each other.

00:30:55: Exactly and that is the... We haven´t talked about that yet.

00:30:57: It´s a communication between the feldermäusen who run away in the frequencies which we don´t hear.

00:31:03: But above all there are also orientations very exciting point where my fascination for the Fledermauser comes.

00:31:12: So that they orient themselves with this echo order, which means sending tones that are reflected by objects and thus you get a feeling of your space what blinds always do.

00:31:25: We used to snip, now we do it like this so send noises out and if I come into room then first And to hear where I am here.

00:31:37: It's a big room, small room, wood, concrete, carpet on the floor, sofa... many people and few others.

00:31:47: That means it is actually your first impulse.

00:31:49: that happens completely naturally!

00:31:51: So now this isn't like a whole new erroneousness or a brand-new rise in our community.

00:31:59: But of course you can notice how I orient myself Or these tools that I use, there are also animals who do it like this.

00:32:08: And they can do about ten million times as well!

00:32:10: But the principle is exactly the same and of course it's super nice to have such a connection between us, isn't

00:32:21: it?

00:32:21: Yes, very interesting.

00:32:22: thank you for explaining Jonas again because we weren't really into that at all yet... ...and just thought over how much you've just told me.

00:32:30: How interesting is it that the brain is connected to your body in a way of perception?

00:32:35: And I just asked myself, if you are in space and snipping so as not to orient yourself on whether or not this feedback feels more or less about your ears than yours.

00:32:51: That would be another question which you didn't

00:32:54: have to answer but... Can i try?

00:32:57: It's hard for me to compare because there isn´t an optical view But I think the perception of space is always very physical.

00:33:08: So for me it's not possible to sit in a room where you can hear or perceive without bringing them together with your body.

00:33:18: It might be similar, like this two-dimensional and three-dimensionality.

00:33:21: You can paint on a sheet and then that's two-dimensality but still have an idea about a third dimension.

00:33:25: That would not be possible for me.

00:33:29: There is no two-D, everything is three D – always!

00:33:32: As soon as I perceive something it's automatically three D. there are no two dimensions.

00:33:37: in my opinion that means this space.

00:33:38: so the spatial dimension third is just always automatic.

00:33:43: We

00:33:44: have also talked about that.

00:33:47: actually of course these spatial components or those physical components people who can see use proprioception still always.

00:33:58: We're all always there to hear where we are, but it may not be so explicit.

00:34:05: But if you suddenly can't hear or at least a lot less, then for the first time in your life would also be a bit annoying because such a basic way of speaking is to find yourself in the world and I think that's... I think that with a lot of somatic dances, you close your eyes for many exercises.

00:34:28: You have to be aware about these other perceptions in the body all the time.

00:34:36: Yes

00:34:36: and we didn't talk much during the pre-processing process.

00:34:40: at this point It's not about sound, acoustics or echos etc... or the sea, which means that it is less important and should be less important.

00:34:52: It's not just about showing you're using your right arm all the time... ...and with this you are super fit!

00:35:02: Super genius but also have a left arm.

00:35:05: Let me see.

00:35:05: what else can I do?

00:35:06: That means to show my vision in people.. You are mega-fit with your eyes, totally great.

00:35:15: But there still exists another meaning And he slips into the background for some reason.

00:35:27: such a difficult thing for me, that I already perceive how people in the last twenty years really hear much less.

00:35:48: And it becomes so clear to the optical that this genuine sense of hearing just slips away from

00:35:58: red and is simply a pity because he's great!

00:36:00: It makes a great sense.

00:36:03: That means you shouldn't see less.

00:36:05: It's great that so much is going on, but there are still more and this is actually what I want to go a little bit too.

00:36:14: to create a spatial sound or replace it with warning.

00:36:20: Where do you find the way back?

00:36:23: I

00:36:24: don't know if there's any way back because on the other hand, of course, it is also an incredible progress.

00:36:30: but communication with people runs through social media and phones for example... It's super easy to take a picture and then you send it back.

00:36:46: It is very simple, I think.

00:36:48: This optical medium can be easily available for the second one which is really fast!

00:36:56: It just gets faster than the higher ones at least now with us in Fledermaus.

00:37:00: maybe not but... And also pictures or videos or something like that.

00:37:08: I believe they catch up more.

00:37:09: That's my experience.

00:37:10: When I ran through the streets fifteen years ago, we both suddenly heard an interesting car and today that doesn't happen anymore!

00:37:25: But of course you also have a lot more optical input... I'm a bit curious about it myself because even though I don´t know or can judge for myself but I feel like there is so much optical information out there.

00:37:40: It's very fast, it changes a lot.

00:37:44: And of course the focus goes automatically in this sense.

00:37:47: It is quite logical as well... Yes!

00:37:49: It's also really good.

00:37:51: like I said he brings so much and can do many things which are not that high up in shape.

00:37:58: but now all you have to say about it here is don't forget because its just too beautiful for it and too deep somehow.

00:38:06: Yes,

00:38:07: I can totally agree with that from my point of view.

00:38:10: That's why such an increased smartphone or media use which stands out a lot in terms of image quality always has something like a de-orientation for me.

00:38:23: So it really means to be on one place and not actually being where you are right now.

00:38:30: And obviously this is exactly the preference for a sense that isn't just about the higher or spatial perception but rather I think it's great that, just like live performing arts, artists who find themselves in the role and take part there with a live coup presence.

00:38:46: That they can actually suppress this sense of hiding from the ground again so as to be able to sharpen our senses back then too.

00:38:53: Of course you do what was the parade example, which is putting absolute focus on it.

00:38:59: It's

00:38:59: probably in every sense.

00:39:01: I think if the focus is too much on one sense, that also applies to hearing.

00:39:06: So with blind people it's like we're very used to working with speech on a computer and when you sit there with headphones and hear this voice then you are so focused on this kind of hearing... That isn't cool either!

00:39:21: There really doesn't make any difference at all.

00:39:24: It's also

00:39:25: fascinating because we work together on our podcasts For the prelude, so a little bit of making on bad dances.

00:39:33: It's called Bad Jets and Jonas just hears everything four times faster than it should be And I can't listen to that at all.

00:39:43: So I can not physically do this.

00:39:44: i'm not used to it.

00:39:46: You hear something but then you say okay.

00:39:48: But Jonas also has to work on information about the ears That I don´t have to.

00:39:55: You two have just announced that there is

00:39:58: also a podcast yourself.

00:40:00: When and where can we hear the Bad Chats?

00:40:04: Hopefully you will soon be able to hear them on

00:40:07: all kinds of platforms, it's going to be a lot of fun!

00:40:14: The Making-of-Bad Dancers will accompany us in our expert interviews which are very good with Fledermäuser.

00:40:27: and then also conversations for an internal team.

00:40:31: What are the effects of this, usually quite scientific discourse?

00:40:36: What impact do they actually take on artificial research and this change in time?

00:40:41: And I hope that we will have at least our first episode by June.

00:40:46: one day until August again four more

00:40:49: episodes.

00:40:50: Exactly!

00:40:50: We're going a little bit to the technical side too.

00:40:53: Let's look at some frequencies try not to be too nervous, but it will definitely be very interesting.

00:41:03: We look forward

00:41:03: to that!

00:41:04: Thank you both so much for talking with us today.

00:41:06: I'm actually even more curious and have even more questions than before And we'll definitely listen to your podcasts because the more nervous, the more exciting is almost at this topic.

00:41:23: Baddance is in H.O.Drej!

00:41:25: Yes, we too and for us as well.

00:41:27: Thank

00:41:28: you!

00:41:28: Bye

00:41:28: everyone!

00:41:29: Yeah, thank you very much,

00:41:30: Alina!

00:41:30: Ciao ciao!