Tanz im August Podcast #20 - Calixto Neto

00:00:06: Welcome to the Tanzam Auguste podcast.

00:00:09: This podcast series is part of The Tanzam Agust Festival, presented by Hau Hebel am Ufa!

00:00:15: this year it takes place from thirteenths-to twenty ninths of august in berlin.

00:00:21: several artists from this years program have been invited to join a conversation series.

00:00:27: In each episode they share insights into their lives and creative work talk about their past and current projects, an offering in-depth perspectives on the works they are presenting at Tansom August.

00:00:40: twenty-twenty six.

00:00:45: In this episode Ricardo Carmona artistic director of The Festival talks with Kali Stoneto.

00:00:52: he will present his work.

00:00:53: Brue Marron On twenty sevenths, twenty eighth's And twenty ninth of august.

00:00:58: At how to?

00:01:01: Hello Kali Welcome to the podcast.

00:01:04: I'm really happy to have this conversation with you, we're gonna present your new work in Tensin August.

00:01:11: so we are recording these talk a bit before you come to Berlin yeah?

00:01:16: So to begin maybe could tell us about your artistic past and what led you to good dance and choreography...I

00:01:26: think maybe i can start in an environment with dance.

00:01:35: My mom used to be a dancer, my sister herself started dancing very young age.

00:01:43: at some point she had to give up because of knee problems but she still teaches dance for kids and so I was born and raised in this dance environment inside and also outside of house because I come from a place in Brazil where there are a lot of traditional dances.

00:02:05: And it attracted me all the time, my path starts like this but i don't go for the dance field right away Because I had very macho father.

00:02:20: so...I went to the sports and theatre.

00:02:25: Actually, I had this university degree in theatre teaching.

00:02:31: And then the middle of that University... ...I started really taking classes for dance and more seriously because before it was in-and out following not a very serious way The middle of the University is around twenty years.

00:02:51: I started taking classes and then i started dancing very seriously.

00:02:55: And two years after, I was already dancing kind of professionally in my city.

00:03:01: I come from Olinda, in Pernambuco, on the coasts of the northeast Brazil... ...and then Olinda received there to like sister cities.. ..And uh....I was dancing there at some point.

00:03:15: that moved to Rio de Janeiro To dance with Lia Rodrigues And that's when it became more, let's say international because Léa has a very active and strong network here in Europe especially France.

00:03:32: At some point I decided to go back to studies... ...and make the EXERCE Master Programme in Montpellier South of France.

00:03:44: That is where i moved to France.

00:03:47: I started also doing my own work while collaborating with other choreographers.

00:03:53: And then lately, I've been very busy with my... ...my own work.

00:04:00: and how can i create bridges?

00:04:03: With other artists whether to work on my pieces or alongside of my projects.

00:04:12: Yeah, thank you for sharing all that.

00:04:14: It's nice that you take us with us in this parkour.

00:04:19: I feel like your work actually sits on the intersection between dance music and political memory And also history.

00:04:30: Do you think it is correct?

00:04:31: How do these intersections make your pieces?

00:04:38: It's an interesting question, I never thought like this especially the third part of it.

00:04:47: The musical part of that although... ...it is obviously a important part of my work because i believe in the poetic and the political power of music when its kind-of central parts are there kind of.

00:05:09: it's a kind of quotation because music brings memories, brings uh cultural heritage or political statement.

00:05:21: Brings up memories of the moment in our lives and our struggles.

00:05:25: so... And the meanings of the words.

00:05:28: I'm very attached to it.

00:05:30: It was the case In Feijoada Of course Was my first group piece where The Music is Kindof the Center of Peace one of the centers because there's obviously the food and history of Samba.

00:05:46: And Samba is a musical manifestation but also as dance, cultural manifestation like more brother point-of-view in Brazil... ...and also Imbrui Mahon with the piece that i'm showing at the festival….

00:06:02: …and Imbri Mahon was kind an encounter with Julius Zismann which actually surprised me!

00:06:09: it was this kind of feeling that I had when i heard the music, which led me to understand more about him and his music.

00:06:20: About minimalistic music in the United States in the eighties, seventies, eighties.

00:06:26: so...I would say yes my even in solo pieces..the musics!

00:06:32: I often like to sing on my pieces.

00:06:35: And uh....i'm not a singer But I believe in this act of giving musicality to the words.

00:06:42: In general, there is a previous work put into poetics so... ...I am an admirer for musicians and poets that create music And how it arrives at society.

00:06:58: For example, the very first part of Rui Marron There's kind of tribute to a Brazilian singer called Liniker that two years ago released a masterpiece of an album called Cajú and I was so moved by the ensemble of her work, it was like...I need to dialogue with it.

00:07:25: And call her to dialogue me with us.

00:07:28: She's black trans woman from Brazil Grammy winner With amazing music that translates the moment actually.

00:07:37: She translates what is going on in the moment and also brings us, they didn't even know we needed it.

00:07:43: so there's this tension between what she's producing now And what Julius had produced back then.

00:07:52: So I like to think about this arch of time.

00:07:57: It's very beautiful how you connect both moments with those musicians.

00:08:02: You were just sharing with us this first moment that you hear the music of Eastman, but it was already some years ago because I remember we started to talk about his project a couple of years ago and then he started to investigate the history of Eastmen.

00:08:17: But also develop some materials on how the piece is done.

00:08:22: so maybe can share with as well how these process for which longer than they usual creation process.

00:08:30: The actual creation for the piece was, I would say it's a normal time frame but there were some steps before this creation right now.

00:08:43: I met Julius in two thousand nineteen studio at an choreographic center in France.

00:08:51: someone used his music and I was stroked by the power of the music.

00:08:59: That's the one I use in Brumarron.

00:09:04: And then, I started researching more about him... About his life and what he has been through when he was alive.

00:09:16: Then in year two thousand twenty-one i was invited to join The Portrait of Lyre Rodriguez at a festival d'automne in Paris a project for them around the Nigger series, actually.

00:09:33: That is... The series of music where Evil Nigger is included that is Evil Niger Crazy Nigger and Gay Guerrilla.

00:09:45: And I imagine the whole project around these three musics that would last long during the night with structure very close to Feijoade the other piece that I proposed to the festival because it couldn't decide myself what would be best project for development at this moment.

00:10:05: And then they said, OK we want Feijoada!

00:10:08: It's more connected with Lyia about the moment and very happy with the choice Because after that i was invited by Constant Festival des Arts in Brussels To become part of... They have a side programation called Free Schools.

00:10:28: And then I had the opportunity to join some dancers and musicians, just be there with them experimenting things.

00:10:37: so that was a moment where something set on my way of inhabiting this environment in music although at one point it was very...I wanted more improvisations around not the music itself.

00:10:57: So I wanted everything to be a kind of a jazz and it worked somehow, It was beautiful because there were very few times.

00:11:07: we decided... ...to create this kind of mini-community And in its work very well Because We also concentrated on getting know each other Getting to know Julius His heritage and how his heritage connects to what we do today, nowadays.

00:11:27: So it was a very powerful moment and also I was working with only black dancers & musicians And It's kind of a bet that i made in the beginning for this project.

00:11:42: Also...it is so difficult to find Black Musicians who could play Julius' scores and it kinda reinforced the choice.

00:11:53: So, the idea for Breux et Marins was to make out of those experiences and desires a real piece.

00:12:03: And dig more into community aspect in their work.

00:12:08: also because it is connected with the experience traveling touring with Feijoade how we managed create this small ephemeral community How they connect through resistance communities in Brazil, historically the Quilombus.

00:12:29: And also contemporary versions of those communities that we have here and how this word is being appropriated by black communities.

00:12:40: to imagine other kinds of liberty from studying Black history goes just having a musical study group, or self-care groups.

00:12:55: Or just dance together... Just being together to have this sense of strength.

00:13:01: and then the process for peace went quite let's say in a classical way In our ecosystem.

00:13:13: The economical ways we are dealing with creation right now With the time frame we have, the production conditions that can provide to ourselves.

00:13:23: We tried with Julie Legalle who is a producer of this company and also Marie Montfort-Redour who's the technical director for making very clear and comfortable environments throughout creation so you could be busy only being together in good ways.

00:13:45: I decided since the beginning that we would go through difficult questions, but wouldn't harm ourselves so it could be a place where you wanted to be.

00:14:02: In this way I think we managed to do it.

00:14:05: Yes!

00:14:06: It's very beautiful and important of course also for creation.

00:14:09: processes are in tune with the topic about peace as well how they want to lead their creations.

00:14:16: And so I feel that even if we don't know all this information about the process, We can also feel it when you see the piece.

00:14:22: Because a group is so strong together and there's such a strong connection between them in their sense of very strong community.

00:14:29: That comes to us as public also.

00:14:33: But besides the performers at around stage There are also piano onstage.

00:14:39: that I feel it becomes, of course is an instrument where we can also hear the music of Eastman but also has a presence in itself.

00:14:48: It becomes somehow another performer.

00:14:51: Can you tell us what was your decision and how did he work with the piano?

00:14:57: The biggest question mark on the creation was about the presence of the piano.

00:15:03: How would you deal with the music for Julius himself?

00:15:08: because I don't have a classical musical background in terms of formation.

00:15:14: So, i was counting on my feelings with the music and also with professional advice from Omi which is our musical director.

00:15:28: she has real musical formations in the conservatoire.

00:15:33: that's very... what can you say?

00:15:41: The way it should be in the Western tradition, and also allowed her to play Julius's score.

00:15:54: In the beginning we would have two pianists but with a problem.

00:16:00: he decided not being part of this project one week before we started working And I was not sure how many pianos we would have on stage.

00:16:12: If there were one piano, two pianists or a piano for each pianist?

00:16:19: How do you deal with the general thing?

00:16:23: But i had some nice surprises during this process that these pianists left and then... allowed me to discover that only one person playing Julius' music is even more impressive because it's a music that is supposed to be played at minimum by four pianos and up to eighteen.

00:16:52: We had some experiences, we have two pianists back then in twenty-two or the free schools were three pianos.

00:17:00: so... In our first week We didn't have a choice, so Omi was alone and she played the music alone.

00:17:09: And then we saw that it kind of worked... ...and even stronger because she was alone like taming the music The Beast as in the beginning.

00:17:22: It's also very beautiful.

00:17:25: So we kept this version of Omi.

00:17:31: She arrived with very strong ambitions to dance in the piece.

00:17:37: She wanted not only to be a piano player, she wanted to dance and uh...she was hoping for that.

00:17:45: so For me it's also a beautiful surprise that out of a sudden I had six dancers while i thought would have five or even four because I was still thinking about having the second pianist.

00:18:01: So those surprises during that process were very kind of shaped, The way i used the piano then... ...the decision to have only one piano as this single symbol Of music on stage and how we would use it As a structure to be That We could go through or that we can move once as an instrument, Or a coffin.

00:18:39: I wanted to go back to this tradition in Brazil during the colonial times where there were black men who worked specifically moving pianos from one house through another when they had to do it.

00:18:58: And there's this special kind of composition, musical composition.

00:19:03: in a lot of working communities around the world.

00:19:07: They make compositions music compositions too pace The work that you know rhythmic way.

00:19:14: so the piano carriers In Brazil was the same and they have specific compositions for That!

00:19:21: I've heard about It like long ago while i was studying theater.

00:19:25: Then, when it started this creation I remembered that.

00:19:30: And then i went back to the tradition not make people carry their weight of the piano but move them around while singing because these music creates a pace for work and there is half lullaby, half sorrow music.

00:19:51: so we wanted to deal with the piano in this presence.

00:19:55: To be somehow far away from us but also integrated into action during that piece and at some moment when it becomes another thing... No not become something else!

00:20:09: In the end I had all those images where you could listen to your piano in other way.

00:20:16: That was the bet.

00:20:17: Those experiences that we see before, the actual music of Julius allow us to listen to their music in a very specific way.

00:20:29: I mean

00:20:31: one of the center ideas for The Peace is the concept of Mahonage.

00:20:35: so i wonder if you could explain or tell me more about this idea and how it influenced the construction.

00:20:45: As I told you, it was moved by the experience of the tournée with The Other Piece where we are ten on stage but also a technical team.

00:21:00: And how very easily can create a healthy and powerful environment for work.

00:21:11: We're living in an isolated place moment of our lives is very difficult in big cities like Paris to create community, to connect with people truly.

00:21:26: And the work somehow it's a place where we actually meet people and I decided that this moment of work to act politically, to create a nice environment of work because there is also a response through other working experiences.

00:21:57: But not only the correctness or contract of good conditions but investing on people that I know The communal aspect of being together is important.

00:22:17: So, choosing people that are open to be more connected than the eight hours we're on studio and also put an effect in it for me was important When I chose those people somehow making sure they would a care of this aspect.

00:22:40: And I need to be very, uh...I don't know how to say it in English.

00:22:45: we have this word in Portuguese called byista that will give value what comes from where you come from and i bet on the Brazilian technology actually!

00:23:04: Also knowing us Brazilians miss these parts connecting to people, being in a more celebratory environment.

00:23:15: And also betting that only the most part of time between black people creates sense security and release is very powerful actually.

00:23:35: so there's this kind of thought when I thought about how can i create, How Can I Work on this idea of marronage?

00:23:47: Of quilombism nowadays.

00:23:55: We became even more friends with this work which is completely normal artistic process.

00:24:04: they generate this kind of openness and sensibility but I bet on the blackness aspect of gathering people.

00:24:15: So, it was inspired by a history in Brazil where there were any kind of captivity that had the will to provide themselves liberty not only in Brazil but around the world.

00:24:37: We want to be free, we need to be.

00:24:39: And if... ...we can do it together and then fight together.

00:24:48: Even when for a dance piece is very political act.

00:24:53: so there was this inspiration how we appropriate the historical moment in Brazil When were late to build those communities from the ground.

00:25:10: And nowadays that we are free in a certain way, how can be even more free from beliefs?

00:25:20: From certain points of view and thats it so about creating this space for liberty comforts and safeness.

00:25:31: yeah Thanks for sharing that.

00:25:34: I think the piece also has this series of monologues from each performer, where they share different perspectives and angles around this idea community.

00:25:46: From beginning you don't see group as a generic ensemble.

00:25:52: You really see them as individuals that had specific histories And bring different inputs to the pieces also use as a choreographer, then managed to create this and choreographed these groups because they're all very different but there's the sense of really strong community inside.

00:26:14: Yeah that is good question.

00:26:16: I didn't know before starting.

00:26:18: cause others.

00:26:19: my second group piece Feijoada.

00:26:26: There are lots of texts And some moments in dance where we invite the audience, The idea of dance and choreographies more on how we deal with the atmospheres Of the piece.

00:26:42: And with Brouille Marron I wanted to work With dancers you know?

00:26:47: With dancing background and To bring this today stage.

00:26:52: i didn't Know How it would Work out.

00:26:58: so my bet was to Bring some practices that I wanted to share, and see how they would react in general.

00:27:07: And then getting to know them... Getting to know how they move, getting to communicate with me as well as the others… Also catching their differences so we can go deeper on what specifically do or how specifically it moves.

00:27:29: So this was bad for me And during the creation process, because I like to write and we were also doing this in two thousand twenty-two.

00:27:43: Those moments that you would only write about ourselves About what's going on just to share some words Some thoughts To getting to know each other more Because not everyone knew each other before The piece.

00:27:58: so We were dancing together but taking a moment to write together, and we had four axes of writing that were historical facts.

00:28:11: That we may not know could be truth or not?

00:28:14: A personal memory... ...and dreams as the ones we have during the night And also like an utopia for the world what we desire for us and how it would impact the world around us.

00:28:31: So actually this writing practices made me see them even more as individual, getting to know them and make me kind of fall in love with them because they are all so amazing.

00:28:48: So rich...so specific!

00:28:51: So incredible everything that we wrote.

00:28:54: We had a bunch of texts not in the piece but They are so amazing.

00:29:00: The way they see the world, their history... Their memories and what they want to do in this world is so precious that I decided to make it a part of the piece And also as you said A way for the audience get to know them as individuals And then from those individualities come up into our group.

00:29:28: In this environment.

00:29:28: we have those specific personalities and the stories they talk about.

00:29:36: And then, kind of come to a common ground... ...to enter in the dance piece A kind of warm-up.

00:29:48: It's a series of warm ups We warm up for dancing Then everything is big warm-ups.

00:29:55: To listen to Julius We are warming up the senses all the time.

00:30:02: and then some things that we're always preparing ourselves to the next thing.

00:30:09: And also this, when the piece is finished... ...we are warmed-up for a new world.

00:30:15: so it's there kind of this utopia which I like working with in the pieces.

00:30:20: So yeah!

00:30:21: There was this thing about falling in love actually Shereya and Isabella because we worked together in other pieces, but the others I just... And also Stanley that was part of The Free Schools back in twenty-two.

00:30:41: But there were others who only fell in love with them wanted to shine their best.

00:30:55: my first dance piece because of Tej Rado there is also I consider that a dance piece but in the very specific way of treating dance and dance writing, it's more connected to what we see other pieces here.

00:31:14: It was really nice exercise for me as well of moving and creating inputs for me to dance.

00:31:27: And then, deal with different bodies... ...different ways of understanding movement… …and amazing ways to respond to those inputs.

00:31:35: so.. For me it was a kind of exciting and terrific experience!

00:31:44: Sometimes I felt very overwhelming because i was so happy about everything And at the same time I was like, what do i do with this amount of greatness?

00:32:01: So it was a beautiful journey for me.

00:32:07: Yeah when we see The Peace We also feel that joy and strength from the group on stage.

00:32:17: You've been mentioning a lot about the connection between Brie Marron & Feijoade and Fejoardo was presented at Hau during the season in the past.

00:32:27: And both pieces, they're there that you speaking also relate to memory two histories of the past.

00:32:32: but I feel like a very strong reflection on what's happening today.

00:32:37: so for your kind of conversations do wish people could have?

00:32:45: It

00:32:46: is an interesting question because those pieces are perceived is very different.

00:32:53: And I agree with you, they both deal... ...with what's going on today.

00:32:59: The way the piece was and has been those pieces were received.

00:33:06: They kind of reveals how we want to do it.

00:33:10: Those questions are Very similar in a lot of Questions that i raised during this piece.

00:33:18: Even some things in Brimarran comes from Feijoada.

00:33:22: this idea of being together just, how can I say?

00:33:26: Caffuné is a word that we have in Portuguese.

00:33:29: That it's very specific way to scratch the head... ...in a very soft way.

00:33:37: and uh.... We have it in Feijoade!

00:33:40: And we have it at Burimarro.

00:33:42: We had people talking and strong moments of dance.

00:33:47: but Infeijoade is a very bright piece solar and also we invite people to dance with us.

00:33:55: We kind of, show our rage talking about some subjects And at the same time... ...we bring joy.

00:34:09: So in this game This is how it feels.

00:34:13: but come part with us And somebody's like this, actually.

00:34:19: Somebody is a very playful and joyful kind of music but if you take care to understand the lyrics they can be very violent... ...and difficult to listen!

00:34:34: So in Brumahon we do it the same way that we share with our audience.

00:34:42: It isn't in a joyful or bright way.

00:34:46: Invite them to dance with us.

00:34:48: We are in a more confrontational relation with the audience.

00:34:53: Yeah, I wanted you to explore this side of being together.

00:34:57: is uh we Are i mean?

00:35:00: Uh, we start the piece dancing Ina With joy.

00:35:04: i mean we started the joy The joy off being together.

00:35:07: we call it This part would call this part the joy boy that there's also A composition of Julius.

00:35:14: You know the idea The Black Joy.

00:35:17: being together is an act of resistance and how we want to face the difficulties in our world.

00:35:26: But at some points, life needs to put borders or limits into our community And then look around if you are in danger.

00:35:42: I was also very... inspired by the paintings of Henry Taylor, that is a painter from the United States.

00:35:51: And there's this aspect of the painting of Harry Taylor and one of them I actually use in A Piece Of Mine... ...I have this pullover, a hoodie where there are these paintings with black couples having a nice moment sitting on their couch And in the background, there is this wall of a prison with black people waiting to enter.

00:36:23: There are things that have been okay but there's always danger surrounding us all the time.

00:36:32: This is also the main topic for peace – how we deal with danger and how we build our bodies around this danger.

00:36:44: So in Bruy Mahon, there is this moment that we make this affirmation on the joy and then we say that this joy has a price.

00:36:53: This joy We need to take care of it.

00:36:56: when you look around if we can keep this joy to us.

00:37:01: so There's this affirmations.

00:37:03: And also because the music of Julius is more about rage I mean It was so beautiful so powerful makes us move, not the ones that kind of make us freeze but it instigates to go beyond.

00:37:26: But is not rightful about being joyful.

00:37:32: so I think we are in sync with music itself what they bring into this

00:37:38: world.

00:37:39: Thank you.

00:37:40: So we're coming to the end of the podcast.

00:37:44: For the end, I would like you ask if you could share with us what's happening next for you as a creator?

00:37:52: You are touring The Works that you did in last year and is there anything else being prepared or do you want to share something with us at this point?

00:38:02: Yes!

00:38:03: We are again investing on community aspect of creation But I had this command to create a solo piece.

00:38:15: A

00:38:15: commission, you mean?

00:38:16: No!

00:38:17: Not exactly a commission but kind of internal in the things at The Company We thought it was moment to settle and rest for a little bit And not being involved with big productions.

00:38:30: So let's create more simple solos.

00:38:34: It has been thirteen years that i've lived here in France more specifically, and I wanted to spend more time in Brazil connecting with the dances that i used to dance when it was back there.

00:38:49: The traditional dances from my state Penambuco.

00:38:53: And also There is this old project of Connecting With The Archives Of Dance Of My Mother.

00:39:01: So...I Wanted To Create Conditions To Do It But in a solo piece.

00:39:09: But as I wanted to be inside of the community, let's say we created this project that is a solo surrounded by other works dialogues with this solo.

00:39:25: so The name of my project was My Neighborhood which is an Atlantic Garden.

00:39:32: It's the name of my neighborhood that I always thought it was very suggestive and connected to what i create.

00:39:41: So, in a way we are creating is an ephemeral neighborhood That takes space & time And I propose my solo and invite other works to be surrounded by them.

00:39:58: So there are some other works, some other dance works and then we have Atelier.

00:40:03: Then let's say... We're gonna have something around the food And a moment of sharing stories Things that I've been somehow working on my projects That i want to put in an independent way That composes kind path during day or doing weekend and at some moment I am part of this path.

00:40:30: So, a more environment in the time frame.

00:40:35: so we're gonna have this project premiered on March twentieth in Sergi Pontoise city close to Paris In a theatre where i'm resident until next year.

00:40:54: Okay yeah thanks for... sharing this preview makes us curious about what's coming next.

00:41:00: And yeah, thank you so much for the generosity that you share with us today and I think we are all looking forward to have your here with us in Berlin in August.

00:41:14: Yeah Thank You So Much For The Podcast

00:41:19: Also!